Neopets on Today Tonight again and more responses to comments from Neopet users

After being bombarded with calls and emails, Today Tonight did a follow up piece last night on Neopets. (The article can be accessed here from the Today Tonight site or here as a pdf on our site.)

I agree with Lisa Lee, a neopet user who appeared in the story who said

"Kids shouldn't be exposed to gambling, but rather than banning the gambling they should put closer restrictions to keep kids out,"

I couldn't agree more. If adults are playing have tighter restrictions for adult content. Unfortunately Neopets don't have the capacity to do this I expect and this is why it has been banned for all Australian users.

Its true there are a lot of other games to be played on Neopets. I don't have any problems with these at all. However gambling, especially in its exact adult form such as slot machines, and black jack are potentially harmful for children and adults alike.

I have received more comments from unhappy neopets users. I want to start off by saying the ban was put in place by Neopets at the request of Mcdonalds. I don't control the ban nor did I participate in the Herald-Sun article, or the Today Tonight story however I do support their position.

From Sara:

i was just researching into this ridiculous aussie-neo-gambling ban and found your site. my kids love neopets, i play on it too. its completely harmless. for the most part the kids don't even bother with the gambling games, thats my forte..and no, i don't gamble for real..so i very much fail to see how this fosters a gambling addition..neopoints are a far cry from real money, and neopets is hardly real life.. thank god i dont live in australia, thats all i can say..theres always a pathetic group of people out there somewhere who wants to ruin things for other people, because they think they know better..get a life...why don't you rally against kiddie porn or domestic abuse, or children starving in third world countries, or something real that matters... *shakes head in disgust and wanders away*

If the kids to bother about playing the gambling games why have them there.

Unfortunately the kids do play the gambling games. Evidence of this is the number of users that have been changing their user preferences to countries that aren't Australia ie there are now kids in Antarctica playing Neopets and playing the gambling games.

Gambling at an early age is often a precursor to gambling later in life. Also people can experience harm from all sorts of gambling. There are lessons that can be taught to children about gambling, but you just don't let them run amok in a children's casino which is basically what some of the games on Neopets are.

Also this is my job, there are plenty of people working against child pornography, domestic abuse and third world hunger, and I support them but my job is to reduce the potential for harm from gambling to the community and though this blog that is what I am doing.

From Nicole:

I'm going to try to refrain from just straight out abusing you for your ignorance and tunnel-vision here, but there's a lot i'd like to say to you.

How many of you that have kicked up a fuss about the "gambling" games on Neopets actually explored the site? Have you played Maths Nightmare? Or Castle of Eliv Thade? For some reason, I seriously doubt it. These are a good example of some of the
EDUCATIONAL games on Neopets. In Eliv Thade you must decipher a jumble of letters to find a word in order to advance through the game, and Maths Nighmare is pretty self explanatory. The use of both games is encouraged by the Neopets Team (TNT)by assigning them avatars- if you get high enough scores you can get a small, sought after picture next to your name in the boards. Avatar collecting is very common on Neopets- even with children.

I'm going to ask you to re-consider what you've done, because banning all Australians is extremely unfair. I'm twenty one, hardly impressionable with gambling. I know it is wrong, and the only reason i engage in it on Neopets is because it isn't real money. I'm not losing anything.

I agree that there may be any games on Neopets that are educational and I have no problem with them and they aren't blocked. I have nothing against Neopets but I do have something against gambling games being available on the site which isn't neccessary.

Neopoints while not being real money do have a value for the millions of neopets players. For them winning or losing neopets is real and thus the consequences and reaction to losses or wins maybe just like that of real gambling. How would you feel if all your neopoints were lost, I would expect that you would be pretty distraught.
However at 21 you do have the right to make choices, and if Neopets is catering to older audiences and has an effective means of checking age etc then they could allow gambling games for adults, but they don't which is why I am reasoning that they have banned it for all Australians.

From jes peters:

As a social scientist that has studied neopets, I find your suggestion that the luck/chance games are without consequences to be laughable. Like many things on the internet, neopoints gain credibility in the user's mind, and a large loss of them affects the user the same way a large loss of "real money" would.

Further, I would suggest that the major point all of the nay-sayers seem to miss is that the luck/chance games are substantially less popular with neopets players. The reason? Players work hard for their neopoints, and playing luck/chance games risks throwing thing them all away. One would think that the anti-gambling lobby would be
pleased with this lesson.

Are we just to shelter the young from all exposure to gaming? And if so, what then? Eventually children will become adults and no longer will they have the rallying cry of "Protect the Children" behind them. Does complete ignorance protect them better that muted exposure? While I am not an expert on gambling behaviour, I can say
that with other forms of addiction, complete ignorance and forced abstention is often
indicated. The user, upon being released from this abstention has learned no sense of what is moderate, and thus binges.

I appreciate the concerns of the anti-gambling lobby, but to compare Neopets to Child Pornography is completely absurd and offensive, not to mention semi-libelous. Clearly you have what we call in the sciences, horseblinders. You appear to have only seen the games of chance, and ignored all else. They must be understood in the context of the entire site, because social influences come from the total experience, not in small subliminal bits.

Yes, children are shaped by neopets. They learn many things, perhaps they learn how to play poker as well. But they learn how to save, they learn how an inflationary free market system works. I know people that home-school and use parts of neopets as educational tools. So yes, sir, the children are affected by neopets. I do not
believe, however, based on the scientific literature, and my own experience, that they shall all grow up to be gambling addicts as you so direly predict.

And on a personal note: I learned how to play poker at the age of 12 while in shop class at my public school. Shall we also ban woodworking?

jes you make some interesting points. Like I mentioned in the post above as neopoints get real value for a user this moves beyond a game to 'real' gambling. The effects both positive and negative become real too. But where is the information that would give a player something to learn about gambling - what are the odds, chances of winning, is it fair or rigged, does it allow for cheating, where are the controls against bingeing and losing the lot. To put it simply they aren't there - you gamble and you win and you lose and if you are negatively effected you suffer in silence. Regular gamblers are more highly likely to develop problems - the same would be true for regular neopets gamblers although their problems may or may not present in the real world depending on how connected they are to their points.

Exposure to gambling for children shouldn't mean teach them black jack and let them go mad. It should be carefully teaching them for example how a slot machine works, what their chances and odds of winning are (how hard it actually is to win and that over the long term you will lose) and teaching them the consequences of gambling especially as if it becomes a problem for a person. Does Neopets do this? No, and it probably can't as this probably needs to be taught interactively rather than learnt experientially as gambling experience normally will feed encouragement to gamble more.

Any childrens chat room can be a target of child pornographers. Recently in Australia Operation Auxin which has captured hundreds of child pornographers Australia-wide as well as shown that contact has been made through chat rooms. It is also not unforeseen that unsavoury characters may ask children to do things or meet in return for Neopoints. I did not accuse Neopets of producing child porn or distributing it, however I did say that in the light of what is currently happening we need to be careful, Neopets included.

No one said that every child will become a gambling addict. But do children need uncontrolled exposure to gambling, especially in its adult forms? No. If they did there would be no legal age for gambling anywhere but you would know that in Australia it is 18 and in some other countries 19 or even 21. Why, becuase gambling is for adults not children as their is a lot at risk. And for many gambler's they are risking more than just money but employment, relationships, families, friends, house and other assets etc. Also like I mentioned above there is probably a lot of good in Neopets but gambling is not one of them.

As for learning poker in woodwork - they should ban the playing of poker in class - maybe then you would have actually done the woodwork.

Also a further response from Sharon Ling:

Then mabye you should look at yahoo and other sites as well that only have slot like game instead of targeting one site. I dont agree with kids gambling but i dont think this site really encourages it or promotes it even though the games are there. If you dont want your kids playing it dont let them.

The key issue is that Neopets and the Mcdonalds promotion are targeted directly at kids. If yahoo and other sites are targeted directly at children please send me the link and I will have a look at it. Also I have not targetted Neopets because I have something against Neopets. If you go back in my blog (14th and 15th September) you will find an issue with a Bratz dolls slot machine (which has since been removed). This is a similar issue but with more impact due to the Mcdoanlds promotion.

So where are we now? Neopets gambling games are banned for Australians only - basically to protect McDonalds. Others around the world can still access the games. Also many Australian children are simply changing their user preferences in order to play the games.

Neopets needs to get serious about this issue and put in place an effective identity checking mechanism. The US COPPA regulations provide some guidance

• getting a signed form from the parent via postal mail or facsimile;
• accepting and verifying a credit card number in connection with a transaction;
• taking calls from parents, through a toll-free telephone number staffed by trained personnel;
• email accompanied by digital signature;

However as an interim measure I support Neopets and Mcdonalds in the action they have taken but more needs to be done to ensure that children can not so easily bypass the restriction.

GG